How to Move from a Job Mindset to a Career Mindset​

John: You’re listening to The Present Professional.

Tony: Where we explore the intersections of personal and professional development.

John: To change your experience of life and work with every episode. 

Tony: So tune in, grab your notebook, and let’s go.

John: Welcome to another episode of the present professional. Today, we’re here to talk about moving from a job mindset to a career mindset. And these are two distinct differences in my mind. And when I think back to my own life, that I felt like the job, when I had a job opportunity, especially my first larger corporate job opportunity, it was, there’s a challenge in front of me, I need to master it, knock it out, and be good at this one thing. And my career mindset has shifted so much to look at the broader view, including so much more of who I am, what’s important to me, what I’m curious about, what I want to learn, and starting to incorporate some of those things into our lives. We’ll talk about some of those moments of shift for us some of those things that we think you can start to implement to shift more towards a career mindset and You know why it’s important and why it has added a more value to our experience. We’re happy to share this with you and we’d love to also get your perspective on what you think is the difference between a career mindset and a job mindset, which one you’re in, how you might need help, or maybe another episode in shifting that. So always, always look to hear from you guys when you want to engage with us. And to kick that off, I think we’ll let’s start with defining what that means to us. So Tony, I’ll let you kick it off. What do you which one do you want to start with job or career?

Tony: I mean, you can start with either one, really, because they all kind of interchange a bit. I’ll talk about career, because I think For me, I always take myself back to this moment I had my senior year of high school. One of my mentors, he asked me, so what do you want to do? What are you going to do with the rest of your life? And I was getting ready to graduate. And I said, man, I don’t know. I just want to help people. And he didn’t say anything else after that. He just said, OK. And I thought that answer was like a dumb answer, because at the time, I didn’t know that you could actually make a career out of helping people. I just didn’t have a true job thought. I’m like, I just want to help people. And so over time, that mantra or that ideation from even that moment of being a senior in high school, that has led me to where I am today and where I’m planning on going. It’s easy to say that I just said something, but what was going on in my life at the time was I was in an organization where I volunteered a lot. And I think the volunteering that I was able to do as a young boy, young man, that kind of led to the maturation of saying that I want to help people for a living and going into careers, going into education fields and even side opportunities, whether that’s side businesses or side nonprofits or even just volunteering with other boards and things, that’s all kind of shifted around my career, my career focus and my career goals. And so, you know, having a career mindset, I’d say that your personal values are associated with that. And so, you know, you think about yourself, John, as a coach, you know, how many people do you help unlock deep rooted things? I won’t even say traumas, I just say like life ambitions and blockages that are maybe happening or even vision vision blockage that they may be receiving, those kind of things probably speak to your personal identity. And that’s the difference between a job and career. When you are career focused, you’re thinking about the people that you’re serving. You’re thinking about 10 years from now. You’re thinking about so much more than what you’d be thinking about with a job, which is normally a paycheck. uh and that that probably is the biggest difference without jumping into some of the deeper definitions but that’s kind of where i like to level set and just kind of say that’s where i started from me and that is such a beautiful example of how one simple statement

John: can turn into a lifelong career and a fulfilling lifelong career of even just since I’ve known you, the amount of things that, you know, we’ve been involved with together, the amount of things that you’ve been involved with on your own and, you know, with your wife and everything, too. Like, I mean, it’s just it’s beautiful how it can come from that one simple statement. and proliferate into boundless opportunities. But it’s like you knew what you wanted, the essence of what you wanted at that moment. I can see some people listening to this or hearing that and being like, okay, you want to help people. Got it. We all want to help people, but like, how does that, how does the rubber meet the road? Right. And it’s like, you were looking for opportunities to support that. So I guess to put that back to you is when, when did you really see the rubber hitting the road for that? Like, when did the statement, I want to help people turn into opportunities that came up in front of you and how did you pursue them?

Tony: Man, yeah, I can speak directly to that because you’re right. When I said this statement, it kind of stopped right there because I then went to college and just was a student, had a lot of fun, joined fraternity, things like that. I wasn’t helping people as much then, right? But again, my senior year of college, I got involved with the United Way and that was my first experience with an organization, a large one at that, that was actually making change happen. And so I met the CEO of the United Way of the city that I was in college in, and he really just changed my life. His name is Gary Lee Ashcraft. And when I met him, I’ll never forget, I was an orientation leader serving people, once again, and I met him kind of like in a private setting. And I was introduced to him and I said, hey, I’m Tony and I want to help. I want to do whatever you got going. I want to be involved. And he said, well, we got money in the budget to send a student up to the United Way Worldwide headquarters and they can help us lead the Student United Way and start it up and found it and do anything, you know, just take it over because it’s non-existent right now. And if you’re interested, you know, I’ll definitely Set it up for you, and it was just kind of Wow like right there in the moment boom like you know wow you serious, you know my mind, but I’m trying to play it cool and Be present, but I was really excited in and I think me and him both were in a season or a time where people will tell you what they wanna do or what you’re, people will tell you one thing and then do another. So for me, I’m like, sure, you’re saying that you’ll send me up there, but you ain’t for real, you ain’t serious, right? And then on his side, he’s like, sure, you’re a student and you say you wanna start an organization and lead, But I don’t know if you’re serious. So we both were kind of just like, OK, we’ll see what happens. And he held his end of the bargain and sent me up there. And I was the, I think I was the only, it was 50 students, and I was the only student from Texas. And we were in Virginia, Alexandria, Virginia, excuse me. And I led the organization. I founded it, started it, charted it, brought it back. Well, when I came back to school, I started it, charted it. My girlfriend at the time, Crystal, wife now, she was involved like she always is and she definitely was a big part of that. But that led me to so many things. It led me to my first job out of college because I got a chance to serve on the board of the United Way that I was working with in the city. And as soon as I had my last board meeting, I said, thank you all, blah, blah, blah. I sat back down in my chair, and the man next to me said, do you want a job? We’re hiring. Because I was getting ready to graduate. And I didn’t have a job. I didn’t have anything lined up. I was just serving. And that led me to my first job out of college. It was a great job. I was a case manager working with families and children, individuals at a school. I had my own office. I think I’ve never had an office before, because I’m just very humble and polite. But I’m like, man, my first job out of college, I have my own office. I have my own nameplate and everything. And just so much experience with that. And it’s led me full circle to work with the United Way of Greater Houston, different capacities. And I’m not just working with United Way because it’s a job. I’m working with United Way because It started my career and there’s something aligned with me and United Way and serving and being a part of that culture and that community and helping people hopefully one day across the world. So, you know, that’s my long story. But, you know, I wanted to answer that deeply for you because I do think people hear that. Oh, you just I just want to help people statement. OK, sure. You know, but no, it can be so much more than I just want to help people. It really it really can be a mantra that you live by. And I’m doing them every day.

John: Man. Thank you so much for sharing that. That was. That was great. I mean, what do you think is one quality of yourself or something that you developed that is like helped you stay along the path that has helped you hold that mantra and or maybe like has helped some of those opportunities come up in front of you?

Tony: Wow, I think sacrifice. I think that’s one of the number one words I’d say. I think that when you work in the community or when you work to serve other people, you do have to have a level of sacrifice. You think of community service, you think of some politicians and political figures. And, you know, those that get it right are those that sacrifice. And when you sacrifice short term, you do get more long term benefits. You do make long connections. You do have opportunity to go into places that you probably never would have on your own name. And so the sacrifices that I’ve made earlier on in my career have definitely opened up the door to the present, to now, you know, as we are Now in a new year, I think this is going to be a great year to allow some of the earlier on sacrifices to blossom. You think about the image, probably need to put it in the show notes, but there’s an image of a man who is chipping away maybe like a rock or he’s chipping it underneath the ground or something like that and he’s so close to the gold mine or the big opportunity but it doesn’t seem like it and so he kind of walks away. And so that is what I mean by sacrifice. You’re staying with whatever it is that you are looking to achieve in your career It does take time, but over time you will look up and opportunities will be handed to you just because you were there, just because you were loyal, just because you learned, just because you had a vision for yourself beyond the check every two weeks. And so for me, Sacrifice has been a huge thing, and I have so many great connections that I’ve made through working in the community. Of course, I always bring up you and I, John. Our relationship was built off of serving the community and so many others, and so I have to thank My wife for also being willing to sacrifice too and being willing to always serve. I mean, she has her own mindset of servitude, but just us doing it together has definitely opened up a lot of doors that I couldn’t have opened alone.

John: Man, again, that’s a great one. I love the sacrifice in the short term for long-term gain. And when I think about a career mindset, That really, really aligns because there may be some jobs that are maybe a little bit against your strengths, that maybe it’s a developmental opportunity. It might be the best thing that you ever did to really dig in and make that job work in service of your career vision, in service of your mantra of helping people, or whatever your mantra is. that maybe there is some time to sacrifice. And that’s not staying in the job for external validation or for just the paycheck, but understanding how it fits into the larger picture and not losing ourselves in that to say that, well, you know, this is kind of this is the job that I have. I’m stuck here. Right. Let’s just let’s just keep developing ourselves here, getting a raise here and there. No, it’s like really taking that time, like we mentioned in the year review episode to really self reflect. You know, see how this how this job or where you’re at at the moment aligns with where you want to go. And in order to do that first, you have to know where you’re going. Understand what your mantra is. Understand what your personal values are. Understand the things that really make you tick. The things that you’re interested in. I think it puts a lot of pressure on people to align your career with your passion. Find this one thing in the world that is your absolute purpose in this life and then make it happen. A lot of times when I’m working with clients or mentees, I like to just shift that and say, what are you curious about right now? What do you want to learn? Follow that. Something that you find interesting. Maybe a person that you find interesting, a cause that aligns with, that brings you joy. Through that, through your curiosity, then I find that people then can discover their passion. I think our passion finds us. And I would say through my path of self-discovery, it’s been, I mean, I started off like, OK, you’re good at math and science, so I guess you should get an engineering degree. You’ll make good money that way. I’m like, okay, sounds good, right? So through that, and I’ve always been more of an explorer. I’ve always wanted to try new things, see new things, like have more of a breadth of experience. Through that, it really did open a lot of doors for me and it might not have been aligned with exactly where I see my path going now and what I would say is my passion today. But through that, I met so many people. I saw a lot of the issues or challenges that people face and through exploring my own mind, I determined that really helping people master theirs was my path. So if I would have just gone straight to this in the beginning, I just wouldn’t have known that it was the right thing. There would have always been, well, would I rather use my math and science strength to help build something in the world? Right that would have been there that would have been there in the background but I explored that part of my life and Really through that I’ve determined that more of an explorer of the mind and this This existence here and like helping people gain a more a deeper experience of life has been Man, so life-giving. It energizes me. I’m energized to learn more, to go deeper, and to help others go deeper, and really just to help others, period. I mean, I love that we always go back to the service. And there’s something about selfless service and really getting out there, volunteering in the community or just helping someone that you know, a friend or anything. That it really shifts the energy. I feel like it makes us feel more at home. I think we are at our most natural when we are selflessly serving.

Tony: I agree. I think we’re also happier people too. I think that if you compare the job mindset to the career mindset, I think that Most people are happier with the career mindset because you have now aligned what you do every day with your identity. And that’s important because you got to realize that your time of going to work That nine to five, as they say, which can be longer or earlier, that’s the best hours of the day. That’s your most productive hours of the day. That’s when you are at your highest peak of thought. For me, it’s like 10.30 a.m. That is like peak performance, right? Maybe earlier, too, depending on what I’m doing. you don’t get that time back. So you want to align that 40 hours a week or however much time you’re spending at your job with something that fills your soul, something that fills your identity, and also pays you, right? You can’t just be volunteering for free, but it is a blend of all the things, passion, paycheck, promise, and future. And I think that when you can figured out that, or you find that blend, or even if you’re not there yet, but you see that in the industry that you are in, or the company that you’re working with, there is an opportunity to be in that, that career happiness fulfillment state, I think that you’re on to something. But I was going to ask you, John, how did you make that switch? How did it shift for you when you were working in corporate and doing what you do now? That is the epitome of that switch from Not even job, I think you were in a career mindset to now in a whole another state of being.

John: Yeah, man, it was really discovering what was aligned with me and an opportunity that I felt I could step into and be really effective at and help a lot of people. So, I found that opportunity when I was in my old career, I was addicts on mobile and it started with yoga teacher training. Actually, it started with the millennial community. It started when I met Tony, and we brought this up on the podcast before, but when the nonprofit he started and just working in that startup realm and just getting out into the community as our own organization, it was just really, really fulfilling and life-giving. Shortly after that was introduced to yoga and I had always had a deep interest in Eastern philosophy Since I was in high school. I mean it was a different way to see the world in the Americas like we’re all Basically founded on Western philosophy. So it was a way to view the world through different eyes in that shift in perspective It completely changed everything for me and not even just the Eastern philosophy perspective. But it’s more of the fact that there was another worldview out there that fundamentally changed the way that I see the world and fundamentally changed the way that I even saw my past. All of the experiences in the way that I engage with the world. So then I was like, well, what else? Out there. What else am I overlooking? What else are we overlooking as a people? so I Immediately dove in 500 hours of training straight and got into the depths of teaching the philosophy of living the philosophy of teaching the physical practice that I still teach every week today and During that time in my first teacher training, I read a book called The Undoing Project by Michael Lewis. This introduced me to the work of Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky and the way that they articulated how irrational We are as beings in our decision-making in the way that we navigate the world You know even right economics is based on us making rational decisions and they founded the field of behavioral economics saying that we actually don’t really ever make rational decisions and there are inherent biases in every decision that we make. Heuristics and biases are the way that they refer to the different things that we do to compensate for certain things, the way that our minds associate things that we want to see, and that influencing our decision-making. It goes into a lot more depth than that. And I’d say if you want to go deeper than The Undoing Project, there’s the book Thinking Fast and Slow that Daniel Kahneman released, I believe, after Amos passed away. But The Undoing Project is more about the story of their lives. And that really opened my mind to this idea of being able to set up environments where people are making better decisions for themselves without even knowing it really. And that really sent me on this path of exploration into the way that we make decisions, why we do what we do. And through that, I found coaching is really the way to instill and foster a positive behavior change, even when it might be the more difficult choice. and like really being able to foster internal motivation in people and give people that same shift that I experienced whenever I stepped into the world of Eastern philosophy that there is a new way that you can fundamentally see the world in your life and I Helping people discover this is the first step in coaching. But then designing environments and cultures that support that is really the ultimate goal of humescence and the organization. It’s really the micro scale down to how to instill positive behavior change in the human, in the individual, and moving to how do we make that more systemic so we can all live a more human world. Whether it’s at the office at home. Interacting with each other and like what are the environments and qualities environments to support that so. Yeah, and now here I am and people ask me, you know it’s. You know what would you do? What would you do if you had unlimited resources or you hit the lottery? Or you know, you know you could not fail. I’m like. This. I would continue doing this. I would amplify it. If someone would have asked me five, six, seven years ago, what’s your passion? What do you want to do in this world? It wouldn’t have been this, it would have been something, it’s everything along the path. Then having the wherewithal to self-reflect and choose how I want to move forward has created where I’m at now, has got me to the point of, understanding what my passion purpose is at the moment.

Tony: It’s beautiful. It’s a great answer. And I know that there are people out there who are who heard you. And I know I know it spoke deeply to them, because as I was speaking about the career mindset, sometimes you really just are in the wrong place. Sometimes you are, it’s not a I’m gonna stay at this company or be in this industry longer and something’s gonna change and open up for me or I’m gonna eventually find fulfillment or I am finding fulfillment, I’m just waiting on an opportunity to further develop my career and my salary. Sometimes it’s none of that. Sometimes it requires a huge shift. Sometimes it requires a complete change. I applaud you for making that change and finding it deeply. You know, I remember watching you go through the yoga teacher training and the 500 hours and the books and all of it, man. I remember when it kind of, no, I remember when it started, not kind of started, I remember when it started and how you shifted and changed the world. really with your time. You sacrificed your time in that time, because at that particular time of life, you were doing three things at minimum, which was your job, serving on the board of the nonprofit, and then yoga teacher training, so you were stretched for sure. and to see it culminate into where you are now, which is, I don’t know the amount of hours it takes to be a master level yoga teacher trainer, but I’ve sat in your classes and I’ve watched you teach classes on the fly, so I’d say you’re probably up there when it comes to mastery. To see that culminate into what it is today is definitely, like I said, beautiful. And I applaud you, man. And I’m glad to know you. And I can’t wait to see what the next 5 to 10 years looks like for John Marshall.

John: Thanks, brother. And I’m excited to bring the listeners along with us, to see everything that each of us create as we move through this, and also to hear from our listeners. We would love to hear what you guys are creating. So if you want to interact with us, you can find anything, any other ways to interact with us at the presentprofessionalpodcast.com. And all of our handles are at the present professional. So you can find us on Instagram, on Facebook, and then again, website, the presentprofessionalpodcast.com. So interact with us, share your stories with us. We’d love to hear a little bit more about your shifts from a job to career mindset and what you guys are up to in the world because not only are you going to be along for our journeys, we want to be along for yours. So again, thank you guys for being listeners. Please rate us and review us anywhere you’re listening to your podcasts and share us with your friends. We’d love to hear from you again. Always a pleasure. Take care of my friends. you