Lead From Any Level - Leading Across

John: You’re listening to The Present Professional, where we explore the intersections of personal and professional development.

John: To change your experience of life and work with every episode. So tune in, grab your notebook, and let’s go.

Tony: Let’s go.

John: Welcome to another episode of the present professional. Today, we’re coming at you with our third episode of the lead from any level series leading across. So prior to this, we talked about leading down, leading up. So whether you are. Anywhere in your organization you’re going to have someone above and maybe below you and where you’re always going to have people is leading across from you. So you’re always going to have peers at any level of the organization. So this episode we’re going to be talking about completing that loop of leadership. in leading with your peers and across different levels of the organization, across different groups in the organization, departments, and even around your team. So how do you embody that leadership with everyone around you in your organization? And I’m going to let Tony kick us off and introduce you guys to the leadership loop. I love this concept from the book 360 Leader by John Maxwell. We’re going to be unpacking some of that here. So I’ll let Tony kick that off.

Tony: Yeah, thanks, John. I appreciate you kind of setting the table there for everybody. And yeah, I love the thought of leading across and everything that you said. I mean, when you think about whether it’s your first job you ever had or maybe you’re seasoned and more late in your career, like John said, you always have a peer or someone across from you. Even in times you may have a peer or someone at the same level as you at a different organization, and you may have to connect outside of your organization in order to find that person that does what you do at a different company. So either way, the leadership loop is super important because, as John mentioned, we already talked about so many pieces of it, but this one is the one that I think is the most genuine. Because this one is the one where you can let your guard down a little bit. Now you can connect with somebody and you don’t really have the need to compete. You don’t really have the need to utilize your position. This one is really authentic because you’re probably in the same exact situation. So the leadership loop for leading across is you want to care. You want to care. You want to care. You want to care. You want to make sure that the person that you’re leading with or you’re leading across with knows that you actually have an interest in them. Second, you want to learn. You want to get to know people. You want to get to know the people that serve the same type of people that you serve. So you want to learn. You want to make sure that they are able to be heard. And you want to make sure that you’re properly listening to them also. You want to appreciate. Appreciate them. Show respect. Fourth, you want to make sure that you’re contributing. Add value to the people that you’re leading across with. Add value to your colleagues that are also at your peer level. And then also verbalize, make sure that you affirm people, make sure that when they finish a statement that you follow up with words, you know, don’t just sit there nodding your head, like really get into it. If they’re opening up to you after you’ve cared, learned, appreciated and contributed, now you want to make sure that you actually use your words to affirm them by verbalizing what they said and adding value with your words. And fifth, you want to lead. You want to lead, or sixth, sorry, you want to lead. You want to make sure that you influence people. You want to make sure that even if you are leading across, there is opportunity to lead even as you are at the same level. Maybe you have more experience in that position. Maybe you’ve seen something or you’ve had the opportunity to go through what they’re currently going through and you can still lead, you can still influence your peers. And then seventh and final, you want to win. You want to win with people by succeeding. You want to make sure that you celebrate them in their victories. If they have something that they have just recently went through and now they’re telling you about how it went weeks ago to now, you want to make sure that you properly win and celebrate the successes of your peers that are leading across from you. So that’s the leadership loop. Care, learn, appreciate, contribute, verbalize, lead, and succeed. John, what you think about that? Have you seen that in any way in your experience?

John: Wow. I love the way that that wraps everything up in a perfect circle, right? Care, learn, appreciate, contribute, verbalize, lead, and succeed. Now, before I give my thoughts, I think it would be useful for our audience if we went through and gave a little bit of a how-to or an example for each of these and I’m going to throw this out there. Let’s just go back and forth on each of them and we’ll add and contribute to the listeners and ways that we feel called to as we move through them. So I’ll start with care and taking an interest in people. It goes beyond your schedule. It goes beyond just making an effort to make your rounds. This is about being present when you are with people. When I think about taking an interest in people, it’s looking at them and wanting to know more. It’s, I care how you’re feeling. I care how you’re showing up. I care what else is going on in your life, what else is going on in your career, even if the position might be another department over, even if the position might not really have anything to do with your workflow. You never know where that person is going to be in five years. You never know what that person is going to contribute to your life and your career. So it’s when you’re with them, even if you may not interact with them for another six months, you might not see them. They might be in another office building. They might be in another part of the country, but they’re in for the business meeting. But don’t let that change your level of presence and care when you’re sitting with them, getting to know them, having the conversation. Be present with them. Ask things that people wouldn’t normally ask them. They’ll remember you. Again, it’s like the Maya Angelou quote, right? People remember how you make them feel. And the way you get people to remember you and the way you build those relationships, even just from one interaction, is having that caring mindset, taking a genuine interest in the people that you meet and being with them, being with them in the learning, being with them in the conversation. being with them in their challenges. So take that into your work and your life and I guarantee people will remember how you made them feel.

Tony: Yeah, I mean, like you said, people love to talk and contribute their own thoughts and their own things. Like you mentioned, you know, asking people things that most people wouldn’t ask. And you’re right. Sometimes you will interact with somebody and it may be a very short period of time. They may go off and maybe move across the country or move to a different country. And so you really never know. So I’d love how you mentioned taking care of taking interest in people by actually caring. And I think also with that, getting to know people, you know, there was a great phrase that kind of mentioned that anybody can teach you something. And so when you get to know people and you actually learn from someone else and you just sit and listen, You’ll find a way to add value to your own life even by sitting there and listening to someone tell you a story or tell you about their own life. And so getting to know people is super important and most people don’t take that time anymore to get to know people. You kind of walk the halls, you kind of show up and you do your job. Maybe you’re an individual contributor with no one under you. So you’re like, hey, I’m just here to do my job and go home. But what if you as an individual contributor took time to connect with people at your company, maybe people who have a big team under them? Maybe they just want somebody else to talk to. Or maybe on the flip side, someone on a team that’s not being heard. You can come in and listen. listen to that person, get a chance for them to get something off that they may want to say, maybe an idea that the boss isn’t listening to. Maybe if you took that idea to the boss on behalf of that person, maybe that idea would flourish and then that person can unlock some new traits and new things in their job or their career. So, you know, just learning and getting to know people is It’s super important and I think you can almost tie the first two together with first you need to care before you start to get to know people. Don’t just get to know people disingenuously. You’re just like, yeah, I heard this podcast and they told me that I should get to know people. No, you gotta care first and if you don’t care first, then start there. Find a way to care, find a way in your heart to open yourself up to care and then learn and get to know people.

John: I love that and how you mentioned you’re getting to know people in turn bringing out the best in them and at the same time I’ll go back to my to my universal oneness type perspective you know let them be a mirror for seeing yourself as well. Now when you’re doing that, when you’re learning from other people, when you’re letting them be seen, letting them be heard, like at the same time, when I’m in those situations sometimes and I’m having conversations with especially new people, getting to know people that I haven’t really gone into any depth with before or I don’t really know them that well, I’ll sit there and think, that this is literally the universe speaking to me. Like this is a mirror of my own self-image because we contain that same spirit. So at the same time when I’m talking to people, sometimes I hear messages directly to myself, like things that I’m supposed to hear, things that I’m supposed to learn. But that comes from being genuinely present and caring and wanting to get to know the person across from me. So I wanted to just presence that before going into appreciation because that really sums up the whole energy of the conversation is appreciating the person, having gratitude that I get to be here, gratitude that I get to have this conversation, gratitude that I get to show up. i get to learn more about this person and i get to contribute to them just because i’m here yeah right because i’m in this situation it’s like that attitude of gratitude you know doing your affirmations every day all kinds of things like that right and there is no replacing a gratitude practice it is something that if you don’t practice like the world will put things in front of you to be disappointed about, like, inevitably. I think that will happen every day. So while sometimes, you know, a gratitude journal or your daily affirmations and stuff, daily gratitude practices feel somewhat overused today in today’s, you know, self help world that there really is no replacing it. Like, if you’re not practicing gratitude every day, you will start practicing disappointment or judgment. So I think that appreciation and having that genuine respect for people just because they’re a human being, not because of what they’ve done, but if it’s someone working in the cafeteria, if it’s the male man or woman. to having genuine respect for the people that you run into at work and in your life, you’ll start to see the energy uplift in all areas of your life in practicing that gratitude, especially in connection with people.

Tony: Man, there’s nothing better than respect. And as a leader, you have to do your part in respecting people at all levels within your company or even within the building that you’re operating in or even the apartment or building that you live in. You know, sometimes you can be super busy and tied up with different things. But you want to do the work of a leader by making sure you’re available for people that may require you to wake up a little earlier or do the work by staying a little later and getting things done. But when someone needs you as a leader, you have to pause, put your things down and be present with them. And that’s a big part of respect. So I just want to add that and that in because I mean, leading across Sometimes it’s position to position, but sometimes it could be someone who may be in a different position than you, but may have just the same amount of life experience, if not more, and they may be able to contribute to your life in a way that you may not have thought they could. I think about a security guard in the building that I work in. Man, he’s full of wisdom, full of knowledge, all the time. He always has something to say that’s, really spot on. And, you know, most people may just walk by me and say, hey, you know, good morning, good day. But just taking five minutes and having a real conversation with him, you will find out that, I mean, that man’s a genius. But nobody would know that if you don’t take time to respect them. And I mean, even though we are in different positions, I still look at that as a way to lead across and show respect and learn and listen and care.

John: Yeah, and it’s that example too, right? Like leading a cross is being in this energy with everyone that you see and being the example for those that even just witness you, like behaving within this leadership loop, right? It’s not even just the direct interaction. But the halo and secondary effects that come from leading your life like this, like the effects you don’t even see, the effects that it’s having and, you know, what people are saying about you, the reputation that you’re building by constantly having the practice to stay within this loop and to practice all the different areas of it. And I think you, we were on the contribute part of it here and adding value to people. And I want to add one thing there is adding value to people without expecting anything in return. because that transactional energy takes away from the example that I was just speaking about. So when you’re connecting with people, when you’re leading across, and you care about them, you’re learning more, you appreciate them, their value, you respect them, and now you’re looking to add value to the relationship. You know, you can contribute somewhere they’re experiencing a challenge or you can connect them to the right person. And when you do that out of a genuine place of, you know, I’m here to add value because I know the universe has my back or God or karma or however you want to call it, that energy is recognized and people feel that as a genuine contribution.

Tony: Yeah, man, there’s a proverb that says when someone comes to you for help and you send them away when you actually have the means to do it right now is anti-wise, it’s anti-wisdom for the reasons that you just said. It’s like, that’s gonna come back to you or maybe somebody will do the same thing to you. You may have a need for something and somebody has the means and they just don’t help you. And I mean, that happens so many times. People may stop in and say that they need something, or even that they just need your ear. And you’re like, ooh, not right now, this isn’t a good time. No, unless you’re literally in a meeting, you need to make the time. Because you really never know. Sometimes it could be life or death for somebody. And even it may not be physical life or death, it could be emotional life or death. It could be advice that they may need. to where they’re going to impact somebody else’s life in a way where maybe it’s hiring or firing. Maybe it’s cutting somebody off or giving them grace to continue to love them like you really never know. So, you know, if you’re listening to this podcast and you’re a professional in any way, you know, I challenge you to make the time to add value to people. And when you do that, like I mentioned in the opening, next, you want to make sure that you verbalize it. You want to affirm the people. You want to open your mouth and you want to say things that matter. You don’t want to just listen blankly. Don’t listen with an empty mind. You’re sitting there listening and you’re just kind of waiting on the person to stop talking. You need to be listening with intent and listening to learn. Listen actively, even though that just may be a hallway conversation. Your words matter. two sentences to their 100 may be all they need. They just might need to get it out and say what they had to say or even just ask you a couple questions and your response could impact their life in a dramatic way. So you wanna make sure that you verbalize and affirm with people when they’re coming, they’re talking to you and when you’re leading across specifically.

John: And this reminds me of the power of reflection as well, even just from a coaching perspective, right? When we’re in there actively listening and verbalizing and reflecting back what the client said in a unique way to capture the essence of what they said. not necessarily needing to paraphrase and summarize the entire thing that they said you know i think that can be used really in just normal course of conversation to verbalize and affirm that i’ve heard what you said i’ve been listening right so people can feel when you try to verbalize like the essence of what they said So you don’t have to repeat back word for word or even really paraphrase exactly what the person said, but you can give something about the essence of, oh, I heard that you’re experiencing, you know, it sounds like you feel, you know, and then they’ll tell you if you’re right or wrong. But whether you’re right or wrong doesn’t do anything for the conversation. It doesn’t say anything about you. But the act of working to verbalize and affirm what the person said in general shows that you’re listening and them showing how right or how wrong you are gets them clear in their own mind about what they’re saying as well. You know, they may come back and be like, oh, you know, I didn’t mean it like that, but now that you say it, you know, and then you open up a whole new door of conversation and thinking for them, right? And another thing that I want to say about the verbalizing, and especially when it comes to acknowledging people, when you’re acknowledging someone for what they’ve done for you or their contributions to the organization, contributions to your team, anything like that, be really specific. Like, the more specific you are in your acknowledgement and affirmation, you know, I really appreciate that you, you know, I really appreciate how you set down, how you set down what you had going on and stepped in, right, to help that customer with X, Y, and Z. Like, specific. I want to acknowledge you for the way that you handle difficult conversations. You seem very calm and collected, and the way that you approach them is just something that I admire. I wanted to acknowledge you for that. Instead of being like, wow, you handle things easily. I’m like, oh, thanks, I guess. It’s like, get specific with your acknowledgement as well.

Tony: You know, and when you’re getting specific like that, especially if you’re going peer to peer or, again, leading across, you be okay with, like, giving stories. Like, they may need a real example from you, and that real example might be where you give a real scenario or a real story when you had a situation similar to what they’re talking about. Sometimes when you’re given that information or that piece to people, they may need to hear where you failed. They may need to hear where you messed up and how you were in that same situation or that same scenario. And maybe it’s not even a success story. Maybe it’s not a loop where you’re like, well, I was in that situation before and this is how I went about that situation and this is how I overcame it. No it could be this is i was in a situation this is why how i feel in this same scenario i was in cost the company hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars and i wish i didn’t do it like that i wish i did it like this so i’m telling you this so you can not be in the same position that i was in. you know, or telling the story about how you may have ruined a relationship and be okay with that. Be okay with being transparent, especially when you’re leading the cross. I mean, what do you have to lose by telling somebody who’s in the situation that you’re currently in how to not be in that same situation or how maybe to overcome it by not doing what you did? So you know never forget that to even when you’re verbalizing to affirm people that hey you’re on the right track because i did it like this and this is how i did it wrong. So make sure you do that too when you’re leaving the cross man.

John: Wow yeah i think we’ll be will be circling back to that when it comes to competition and just cause when you mentioned. When you mentioned verbalizing it and letting someone know the situation that you’re in or that you’ve been in, what comes up for me is the competitive culture that I was in in corporate America was people would withhold information because if the person across from you failed, you would likely be ranked higher. And that was just the structure of the system, right? And so it took a different level of integrity to come in and lead like this based on your values. But sometimes there are systemic structures that you have to choose. How are you going to show up as a leader? Are you going to stay connected to your values or are you going to play into the system? Sometimes it’s that personal choice and I think that leads really well into the next part of the leadership loop and leading. I think it is choosing that, choosing the authentic way that you want to show up regardless of the system that you’re in. And that authenticity will be rewarded by the people that you touch, by the people that see you leading by example. So everything that we just went through, the last five principles here, like being in that energy with all of your interactions and the way that you navigate the lateral relationships in your career, in your life, that’s leading by example. and you influence people by being yourself. The quote that I stick by all the time is, you can’t change people against their will, you can only influence their will to change by being yourself. And living these principles will influence and will have a halo effect with the people around you. when they see the way that you interact with people, when they see you not having the need for a transaction when you contribute to someone, something, a project or a cause, when you’re specifically verbalizing exactly what people say and exactly what they do for you and for your organization. your acknowledgments seem genuine and that you’ve been paying attention to exactly what happens. All of these principles, embodying them and doing your best to embody them every day, that’s leadership.

Tony: Mm-hmm. It’s not about being perfect. It’s about showing up, being consistent, and not giving up and not stopping. You know, and we live in a very hyper-focused culture that only shows success. Look at me succeeding. Look at me winning. But getting up every day and leading people is winning. Getting up every day and showing up is success. And so sometimes there may be a peer as you lead across that may just need that encouragement or that reminder. You know as they may watch people go up the corporate ladder up the success ladder And they’re wondering what about me you know you may be that ear that has to remind them of hey you are Successful you are winning you are leading don’t compare yourself to others just keep showing up every day and that kind of leads right into the complete versus compete did we close the leadership loop already are we good and

John: Yeah, I’d say we went through leading and then, you know, you mentioned succeeding there, winning together. I mean, one more thing that I just wanted to say about winning together is, you know, the way that you celebrate in a relationship is way more reflective of the health of the relationship than how you fight or how you argue or how you compete. So this goes for your work relationships, for your personal relationships, romantic relationships. The health and strength of the relationship is going to be based more on how you celebrate over how you fail or compete. So, you know, when we talk about succeed, win with the people, celebrate your wins, it’s like really be there, right? And really be supportive, show your enthusiasm, even if it’s not your own win, like celebrate them, celebrate the win. And you’ll find that that strengthens the relationship even more. And we’ve talked about this concept before on the show, but just to represent it, it’s called active constructive responding. So you’re active in your acknowledgement of the success, like I’m engaged, I set down what’s next to me. I don’t keep reading through my phone when my wife’s telling me about the success she experienced in her day. I put down my phone, I’m with you, I’m engaged. Help her relive it. Tell me more about that. Listen now, tell me about everything from A to Z. How did it happen? What did you feel like when you were there? And you’ll just watch them light up to experience their success, to relive the celebration, to relive the success. Again, in the conversation with you, people don’t forget that. So I want to re-presence that concept. You can Google it if you want to learn a little bit more about it. Active, constructive, responding.

Tony: That’s good. Okay. Now we can go into competing. No, I think that’s good, man. Every time you say your wife, I’m always like my ears percolate because I’m like, okay, what can I relearn here? Because, man, it’s so good to bring these kind of concepts into your romantic relationship. So I just want to let the people out there and the professionals that are hearing this, everything we’re saying you can definitely apply to your personal romantic relationships too. Because leading the cross is leading with another person that you may love. So never forget that. Yeah, I agree. So competing versus completing, you’re going to tee this one up for us?

John: I love this concept. And, you know, it comes back to, you know, what we were talking about in verbalizing because it was in such a competitive culture before. And it, you know, you could see the weight that it had on people. And you’re right, it is coming from a place of scarcity, a place of lack, that I need you to fail for me to win, for me to look better, for me to succeed and move up the ladder, for me to have a one-up in this friendship or relationship. It’s coming from a place of lack within oneself. And there’s nothing wrong with some healthy conflict or healthy competition. And healthy competition is in the spirit of the organization, in the spirit of the customer, in the spirit of what you want to create, innovating. And that is what competition is supposed to fuel. But then when you’re coming from a mindset of mine, mine, mine, and I need more for me and, you know, at the expense, especially at the expense of someone else. I mean, that’s the energy that you’ll start to experience that burnout. You’ll start to experience disconnection. You’ll start to experience like not creating as much value for your customers there. You’ll start to experience silos develop in your organization where people are hoarding information and you know you’re not experiencing a lot of cross collaboration that is ultimately after one goal. Whatever you produce or serve to your customers.

Tony: Man, that’s so spot on. And when you think about that culture that you mentioned, that competitive culture, it can be seen virtually anywhere and everywhere. But the people that win in those kind of scenarios, especially if you’re in that scenario now where you’re in a competitive culture and you can’t get out of it, is when you are the person who’s complete, when you are the person that sees the system or the systemic system, whatever it may be, that is causing the environment to be so toxic, where you rise above it, when you show up whole, compete, complete, and in the best version of yourself every day, and you look around and the energy around you doesn’t influence your vision, it doesn’t influence your success, man, you will become the example that everybody wants to be. It’s like, why is John always so happy? He shouldn’t be happy. this, this, this and this just happened. It’s like, no, John is happy because John is fulfilled every day. And John has accepted and understands that this job and this place and this environment is only a place that he’s passing through. And so, you know, when it comes to the competing versus completing, I thought about the growth mindset episode that we did. And we talked about, you know, similar concepts because the scarcity mindset is a part of competing. when you’re in such a competition mentality, it’s sometimes healthy, don’t get me wrong. It is healthy to wanna compete because you wanna be the best and maybe that drives you. I’m also a Gallup coach too and so the competition strength is a strength for people. But if you’re coming from a place of scarcity, you’re coming from a place of I win, you lose, Where does it end? When will you feel fulfilled? And so, instead of thinking about it as a I win, you lose, find a way for both people to win. Find a place for you win, I win, and the whole team wins. It’s kind of like sports. I love giving the sports analogy. If you’ve been listening, to this podcast, by now you know that we always bring in a sports analogy every now and then. And so when I think about basketball, or even football, but I use basketball, there’s a statistic that’s super important, that’s to me just as important as scoring, and that’s assist. How do you help somebody else score? And if you can provide assist in your life where you can see somebody else win from a direct contribution that you gave, that is an example of completing versus competing. You don’t always have to score the point. Sometimes you can set somebody else up to score the point and you both win. And when you both win like that, your whole organization or your company or your team wins too. So never forget to add value to people in a way, especially when you’re leading across to where you complete something, you help them complete something that they’re going through or they’re trying to figure out and you put the team first. and you all win, it’ll come back to you, I promise you. You just have to change your mindset to add that growth mindset so where you don’t feel incomplete by somebody else winning and you seemingly not winning.

John: Right, and I love the analogy because, and then also it comes back to that transactional nature, right, is if you’re assisting with always expecting an assist in return, It doesn’t work the same way. Could you imagine if the point guard expected as many assists as he dishes out to the rest of the team? That would throw off the whole game, you know, like they’re they’re passing the most they’re bringing the ball up the court They’re calling the plays navigating Right. Could you imagine if they expected the same amount of passes back in returns, man?

Tony: That’s why I love to flip it to football that’s why I love offensive linemen because they’re the most selfless individuals like in the sport, in any sport. I mean, you think about their stats, right? I think there’s a stat called pancake, right? How many pancakes did they get, right? How many people did you flatten out, lay flat on their back? It’s like, that’s the stat that you track? Okay, it’s like, that’s cute. But in reality, they don’t have a lot of stats to track. Well, try to play a football game without an offensive lineman and see how far you get. I promise you. The worst person to piss off is probably the left tackle. You piss off the left tackle, nobody’s going to win anything. I promise you. So I say that to say sometimes you want to take the mindset of how can I be the most sacrificial for my team or for this person or for whatever the situation may be because I promise you it’s temporary. And I promise you that by you doing that, you’re going to see somebody else win. And in return, down the road, there will be an opportunity where someone will do it for you. You know, when I’m driving and drive a lot in Houston, I mean, it’s Houston. You can’t, you cannot drive in Houston, right? So when I’m driving, I’m the guy who will let somebody over who’s merging at the last minute, right? I’m always like, all right, I let him in, right? I’m a sucker, whatever. But I do that because that person that’s trying to get in at that merge lane is usually my wife. So I’m trying to give grace and karma. So in the future, when she’s that person merging in, the karma just works out in her favor, where it’s like, I’ve let 10 people in at one point, so she gets in at the last minute trying to merge. So if you see a blue Hyundai on 610, just let them in. Just let them in. Just let them in.

John: Oh man, that’s so good. So true. Oh, one last thing from the competing versus completing that I feel like we need to share here is the single thinking versus share thinking. I love that. And this was a big part of what I experienced in the corporate world. keeping the ideas to take credit for yourself because you could put it on your performance review, right? And so it kind of systemically kept in the single thinking, right? But really, share thinking should be rewarded. How can you bring the idea to the team or the organization to have it completed, executed, and brought out to the market and to your customers well? Let’s share the ideas. These are our great ideas. This is our team who’s winning by everyone’s ideas that are coming to the table. And with that, it’s like letting everyone be heard, right? Creating the psychological safety within your team, within your organization, so that ideas can be shared and not shut down.

Tony: Yeah.

John: Right. Let all ideas come to the surface. And even if it’s not a great fit, maybe part of the idea could be a great fit. Like ask him a question like, what were you what were you thinking about? What were you trying to solve by bringing that idea to the table? Or let them expand on it a little bit more. And maybe part of it you keep in and move and bring forward. Right. But that shared thinking, if you want to have success in this day and age, there has to be collective innovation. You cannot innovate in a vacuum to keep up with the pace of technology and business today, period.

Tony: Man, that’s so true. Things are things are happening so fast, so rapidly, so quickly that just by you asking or bringing in somebody else’s idea, you will get a chance to see a whole nother world that exists because there are different perspectives every day that’s being developed, not only being developed, but being validated. There are true new thoughts that are being developed and validated by the generation around us the generation under us and our own generation and peers every day so it’s great to bring in other perspectives just want to clarify that too.

John: And you know hitting these last couple points here is you know being a friend and avoiding office politics I think those are one and the same. To be friendly, to find common ground, be honest with people, let people know how you really feel, having a sense of humor. I think all of that comes in turn with avoiding office politics because what I’ve seen, I’ve seen people I’ve seen in the corporate environment where you will actually engage in gossip and petty arguments to feel like you’re developing a friendship, to have something outside of the direct work or the business to talk about. And sometimes that’s gossiping about so-and-so, you know, hearing about something through the grapevine, you know, finding out a little bit more about that and, you know, that kind of like coffee talk Gossip, right? Avoid that. Find something real to connect with someone on, you know, maybe common ground that’s not related to work. Ask them a question. Ask them a question to get some explaining a little bit more about themselves. You know, really connect with people.

Tony: You know, I want to chime in on that. If you’re ever in an environment or a scenario or situation where you kind of can’t avoid the gossip, be anti-gossip. So when someone starts talking about someone or talking about a situation or a thing and you know inside of your heart you’re burning to disagree, just do it. Just disagree and see what happens. Don’t start an argument because nobody wants to just sit there and argue, right? But just saying, I don’t know about that. I think Jim’s pretty nice. I mean, one time I had a flat and he stayed after work with me to make sure that the tow truck came or the person came to fix the flat or he even helped me fix the flat. Just tell a good story about that person. And you’d be amazed at how the clutter in the conversation just zaps. It just goes away. And then guess what happens? They’re not gonna talk to you about Jim anymore. They’re gonna avoid you when they wanna talk about Jim. Trust me. So sometimes you’re trapped in those scenarios, but there’s always a way to burst out if you can’t just move your physical self and avoid it.

John: I love that. And it’s, I think it’s really wrapped up in that last statement. There’s stand up for what’s right and not just for what’s popular. It’s how you bring your values into work, how you bring your values into your day to day, into your interactions with people throughout your day, throughout your life. How do you want to show up? Do you want to complete the leadership loop and show up as the example of what your culture can be and what our culture can be? Or do you want to play into the norm and fade into the background? If we have a lot of people standing out, setting examples, and becoming present professionals, we will change the way that we live and work. It starts with every single one of you individually to do the work on your own, find out what authentically showing up in your value looks like, and live it. live it. So thank you guys so much for being listeners. Thank you for listening in to this three-part series on Lead From Any Level. It all stands with you guys now to take these principles into your life and embody them in your life and work and just see how your world starts to respond to you. Thank you so much for being listeners. You can find any other ways to interact with us on the presentprofessionalpodcast.com. We’d love to hear your feedback. Please rate us and review us anywhere you get your podcasts. Ratings and reviews go a long way for us. If you’re listening, please take the time to drop a review in there. We appreciate it. Thank you and go out there and do your work.